Reminder

[zarhooie]

Hello, my fine getting_started members, subscribers and lurkers! I just want to remind you all that being upset at the way the system works is ok. There's Suggestions if you want to change it, and this comm or Support if you want workarounds or help.

At no point is it acceptable to be rude, cruel, abusive, mean, or excessively unpleasant to individuals who are attempting to help you. I am sure most of you learned this when you were 3, but I am sure that a gentle reminder of this would not go amiss.

As a mod, I feel a responsibility to make this comm a safe place for users to ask questions. If I see someone being combative in comments or an entry (or if a member contacts me), I will take action. It will usually be a politely-worded PM, but might take the form of a permanent ban from commenting or posting here. I am confident that this will be a rare and unusual occurrence.

Thanks for hanging out here and being awesome!

<3,
Kat
Mod

Comments

[jumpuphigh]

I love you, Kat!

[raine]

Thanks, Kat! :)

[azurelunatic]

♥

[ironed_orchid]

Thanks.

[jjhunter]

Thanks for stepping in -- it definitely needed doing, and you did it well.

[madelienegrey]

Thank you! I think I love you.

[sophinisba]

Thanks!

[sid]

What a truly stunning jackass. Nice use of the ban hammer! ♥

[rhi]

Oh, bless you!

[the_shoshanna]

Brava.

[baggyeyes]

I just don't get why the guy went straight for insulting from the get-go.

[moem]

This, exactly.
Why would anyone want to keep helping you if that's how they get treated? And how exactly is pointing someone to a perfectly fine solution for your non-problem 'too little, too late'?
If you're determined to dislike this site and the people who use it, then yes, you will... so why waste your time?

[yvi]

And then spend so much time insulting people and demanding help, but turning Fey down with " I've got research to catch up on, writing to do, warm weather that's leaving us ... all of which leaves me feeling that I'd rather spend less time online, not more."

[mab_browne]

I have a weird and paranoid theory. This person's remarks, and the parting shot on their journal, look like a hyped-up version of some of the more sadly 'zealous' anti-LJ remarks that appeared in the newsposts recently, especially the whole 'too little, too late' thing. So at best, an effort at satire, at worst, done for great lulz. Or both. Like I said, it's just a theory, but it pleases me. ::shrugs::

[baggyeyes]

I wouldn't go that far. My guess is, he wanted the feature to just BE THERE, as in click a box and its done. No work on his part. What he forgets - and a lot of people, apparently, is that the bulk of the layouts on Dreamwidth were created from the ground up - they weren't inherited over (with the exception of Negatives, Transmogrified and Zesty. Maybe a few things that people take for granted, like journal names in the title bar weren't added either through basic oversight or designer preference.

I just had no idea that would be such a dealbreaker. Man alive, I've never seen such a reaction over a title bar.

[matgb]

designer preference.

I just had no idea that would be such a dealbreaker. Man alive, I've never seen such a reaction over a title bar.

Designer preference, it seems, it's the default Core2 layout, but isn't the same in LJ, where you can change your TITLE to be different to username.

FWIW, fixing it for my layout was my first priority when I learnt S2/Core2, I hate the default and have overrides to make mine a lot more flexible. I'm also building a TR based style from the ground up that will do that, and a lot more.

I actually do understand the passion, for a public facing blog, page TITLE tags, especially making sure the entry title is in the TITLE, is very important.

I don't understand the arsehole approach, completely out of order. I also don't understand the idea that "we're in beta" means nothing. I know some sites are in perpetual beta, but we genuinely mean that we are. PErhaps we should make that a bit cleared during the current signup process?

[kerravonsen]

In other words, a troll.

[mab_browne]

Well, yes, a troll. But a troll with a template and specific purpose, as it were. And thinking about it, I'd better make it clear that just as the people being over-enthusiastic about DW were 'ordinary' users, I see no reason to think, if my speculations were correct, that the person concerned is anything other than an 'ordinary' user too. Having seen how sometimes misunderstandings blow up when things aren't made explicit. :-)

[suncat]

What astounds/puzzles me is the vitriol he left behind in his journal. His whole reaction seems so overblown. I'd think that a few questions would have provided the information that features he considered important (and I'm not going to deride what the next person considers important) weren't here (yet). Then it's a mental shrug and off to check out the next journaling site. He seems to have multiple ones out there, so it can't be a new process to him. Why waste the time and effort on the raging and flailing?

Oh well. Guess it's also difficult to see what some folks find to be fun.

[hilarytamar]

Kick-ass moderation beautifully done. \o/

[lilmoka]

Thank you so much <3

[ninetydegrees]

Thank you!

[kore]

You rule. That guy was bad news.

[vass]

Thank you! I particularly liked how he called us all fanboys. Does not know the user base!

[vanessagalore]

Can I offer a perspective here? I don't believe he was a troll. I believe he felt humiliated by his inability to make sense of the process of customizing your journal and then lashed out. By the time he got an answer that he could comprehend, he was too embarrassed to even listen.

I read through that discussion, and I think the problem was that the user was not coming from a livejournal history, and you were answering him in a "livejournal-based" way that just fed his frustration. I completely understand his frustration, because it's similar to the frustration I felt as an older user first coming to livejournal (and sometimes even feel now, after three years at lj and now here).

It's incredibly irritating to see other journals doing something that looks quite simple and being told that you have to learn html and css to do that. Now, I'm a very compulsive person, and so I learned how to do those things...in about a year (and I'm still learning)! But most people my age (late 40s) would not. And they'd leave. And they'd probably go somewhere where those things are easier to accomplish, someplace like Wordpress.

So I guess my point is: is that really our goal, to send those people away? I know Dreamwidth can't hold the hand of every newbie who comes here. But I think it might be valuable to look at the exchange a little differently from how everyone seems to be regarding it, i.e., what are the expectations of different types of endusers that come to the site, and how can we keep them as users. For example, most of my contemporaries have no idea what "in beta" means, and the limitations that phrase connotes.

We old farts have something to contribute, but we are coming from a completely different mindset, and it feels humiliating to be told to wade through a hundred FAQs. You guys are used to that kind of learning curve, but my contemporaries are not, and our breaking point—where we just give up and leave—is a lot lower than most younger people.

I can tell you that I certainly would never have been able to figure out how to customize a journal if I hadn't had a job in the 80s that was basically typesetting (high-level wordprocessing) and used a computer language that was incredibly similar to html. I have another friend who is ten years younger than me, and she gave up on customizing her journal; I'm doing it for her. You don't realize how different it is for people who did not grow up on the Internet. And I'm pretty sure that Dreamwidth's business model includes users who aren't coming from Livejournal or any other blogging service, who are brand new to the wild and wooly world of journaling.

Maybe I need to make a comm called "old farts" for people to ask questions in a different way: hand-holding for people who are new to blogging.

Now, I could be completely wrong, and the guy was really a troll, but what I'm hearing from you guys is that you don't understand him. And what I saw from him was that he didn't understand you. You certainly do need to keep control of the community and people should try not to be rude when they're asking for help, but I don't think it hurts to look at the exchange and see what we could do better.

You guys'll all probably flame me now. Get off my lawn, durned kids.

[baggyeyes]

I won't flame you. What you say makes sense, as well as what matgb said above, and in the entry under discussion. It can also be frustrating when you just can't find the right words to express something, and the crossed signals make matters worse. As I said above, I don't think he was a troll. Just someone who wanted the site to work right. I think we all do.