getting_started | (no subject)

Everywhere else in the Universe, you mean like on LiveJournal, where much of the original source code and terminology for Dreamwidth originated? It's only been like that since the 20th century, you know. (LiveJournal was founded in 1999.)

Speaking as a (volunteer) Support admin, I am sorry that your request wasn't answered in a timely manner. We are understaffed at the moment due to real life issues with many of our volunteers (including the other Support admins).

Since the system is not working as you feel it should be, please feel free to submit a Suggestion via the Suggestions Generator. This way, it's possible that future users will have less trouble doing what you're trying to do. Many users have found that their suggestions have actually made it live on the site. This method helps to improve the Dreamwidth end-user experience.

Speaking as an admin of this comm, you are being an abusive ass to the people who are trying to help you, among whom you will find the fine members of

getting_started, Dreamwidth developers and yes, some of the Support volunteers that I manage. Therefore, I am putting you in time out. You are hereby banned from commenting and posting here for the rest of forever.

Being upset is reasonable. However, your behavior and language was not and WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. Now, I'm sure the other trolls under your bridge miss you, so kindly fuck off.

Yes, I have. Still not answered. I was, of course, exaggerating a little when I said that nobody was answering support questions, but when one finds questions from 4 weeks ago that still haven't been answered, and then notices a stack of more recent questions that have been answered ahead of one's own, it's pretty easy to see where that's going. The question is just going to scroll off the page, unanswered, and be forgotten.

Again, requests aren't prioritized so some requests go unanswered because nobody can answer them and/ore reproduce the issue (remember the part where support is done by volunteers?). Compared to other sites, similar or not, requests get answered ridiculously quickly here and the number of open requests is really low. And in case you missed the part where this is done by volunteers, let me repeat it again: this is done by volunteers who go out of their way to help other people for no benefit and they're doing their best (and if you have any experience with support services you know their best is damn good).

Check the facts before denigrating the Support system and its volunteers aka your fellow users, and extrapolating from two requests (your own and the oldest one).

Titlebar, just for easy reference.

I think the problem could have been under http://www.dreamwidth.org/customize/options , Edit Titles for future reference. Or not.

Edited 2010-10-06 13:57 (UTC)

Indeed, that would be the best place to include the option.

Yes. This is already a support ticket, right? Specific for the titlebar?

I never checked the support tickets, myself. I did file it in dw_suggestions, along with another style feature I'd like to see. So it will get caught as a duplicate if you're correct.

Seriously. Also, there's no page to 'scroll off from.

I don't think it is. I'm not sure it's a bug.

Personally I'm very happy most styles don't use the journal title as the webpage title. It would make bookmarking and tab browsing painful for me.

Which is why I thought it could be an option, customizable by the user.

But I'm not sure what you mean about the bookmarking and browsing. What negative effect do you see?

What the OP wanted was to have [custom title] as the webpage title instead of [username | page_title]. All you'd see in the tab title would be the custom title, which is generally completely meaningless to anyone but the journal's owner. Currently, I see the username so I always know which journal I have in a tab.

You're right. Not a bug, but perhaps could be an option, one people could use if they want to. It's not a world changer for me.

I see your point. Recalling now when I bookmark journals from other sites I often end up noting in my bookmarks file something like "(so-and-so's blog)". And that's not going to help when you have stuff open in browser tabs.

Still, I think it might be nice to offer it as an option. Heh. Maybe something like "Custom Journal Title by D.W.User".

Oh! *headslap*

I wandered past this, and have been trying to figure out why, when I go to anyone's page, the journal title *does* appear at the top. Now I see-- OP wanted to know about the *browser tab*.

Much clearer. And here I thought I was just confused.

(I'm new. Don't mind me.)

It took me a while to understand what he meant too and I'm not new here! :)

I knew what he meant immediately I read the entry, as it's one of my bigger bugbears about default behaviour, and one of the first things I taught myself to fix when learning S2 (you helped me with it IIRC).

@OP: I'm taking on the role of DW documentation lead writer, and I actually agree with you re the actual problem, that it's not clear, and that it needs fixing, and should be available as an option.

However, a) I've been ill, and therefore unable to pay attention to support and this comm as much as I like to and b) regardless of my opinion on an issue, if anyone wanting help went arround attacking volunteers and calling them liars when they say "I'm not aware of this happening elsewhere", they'll get very short shrift from me, regardless of how I feel about the issue under discussion.

There is a fix, it's fairly easy, but currently requires setting up your own layer. At some point, when I'm well enough, I'll be turning the work I've already done to get it working on my journal into a layout available to all, but this is a site still in the beta stage of development.

My post with my initial code is here: Anyone that's read my ramblings online for awhile knows that I take usability and search presence fairly seriously. There's no point in writing something for a general audience if people that are interested can't find what you've written. Dreamwidth's default settings for page TITLE tags were, well, a bit weird, and broke basic usability and SEO rules. So I've been hacking.

@ninety. This is one of those instances where accessiblity and usability can clash. The way we deal with page titles is very bad for both usability and accessibility, the ideal is if someone has multiple tabs from the same journal open, each should be distinctly indentifiable within the tab display (Nielsen wrote some very good stuff on this for Alertbox a few years back).

Hopefully, my health is recovering, so I'll get some coding done to make my floatable layout ready enough for others to test it. It has many many many options within it that I suspect the OP might quite appreciate. Hopefully he'll learn some manners if he comes back.

if we should find that they can't or won't respond to reasonable criticism

You call some of your comments in here 'reasonable'?

I don't. Seriously, I agree with you on the issue you came for help with, and it's part of my job within the team to fix such problems, given it's one I personally cared about enough to learn to code in order to fix, it'll, at some point, get done, in a way that suits all users to the site.

However, accusing people of lying when they're a) not and b) trying to help you isn't reasonable. If you feel it is, then maybe this isn't the sort of site you want for a bloghost, I like my discussions to be a little bit politer and try to take those that talk to me at face value instead of assumed dishonesty. It normally helps.

Thank you. I hope you get well soon.

Thanks for clarifying a solution, especially the part where it affects usability and accessibility. I hope you get better soon. :-)

Except for the bit where I got mixed up, I'm in no way an accessibilty person, I do usability and search stuff, in the above where I say "bad for usability and accessibility" I meant "usability and search optimisation", I don't know what it's like for accessibility and given my previous sentence was about the potential clash, that makes no sense at all.

And thank you. The flu is going away, now I merely need to deal witha broken tooth :-(

@ninety. This is one of those instances where accessiblity and usability can clash. The way we deal with page titles is very bad for both usability and accessibility, the ideal is if someone has multiple tabs from the same journal open, each should be distinctly indentifiable within the tab display (Nielsen wrote some very good stuff on this for Alertbox a few years back).

As as I said in another comment, I like the way it works now. Having a custom title (meaningful to the owner but meaningless to other users) instead of the username as the webpage title would make the webpage title totally useless to me.

Edit: Oh and I wish you a speedy recovery. :)

Edited 2010-10-07 04:44 (UTC)

As as I said in another comment, I like the way it works now

Yeah, it was that I was responding to really, didn't want to make a billion comments.

Having a custom title (meaningful to the owner but meaningless to other users)

Except it's explicitly not meaningless to other users, the opposite is the case, and there's buckets of usability research on this backing it up (both WPTS and Alertbox have good stuff on it).

It's your preference, but it's certainly not good practice for normal use. It should, however, be a style setting, and thus style=mine, style=site or style=light would all give you your preferred regardless.

For both usability and search, decent page titles are essential, and if we're to be a viable public facing blogging platform for those that want a public facing blog, having it as an option will be vital in my, very considered, opinion.

Simply put, lack of decent TITLE tags are the biggest individual reducer in search clickthrough traffic, and substantially imfluence positioning on search results pages.

If someone is looking for a how to on anything, the current default makes it much less likely they'll find something on a DW hosted journal. Given the amount of traffic I still get through Google for "dreamwidth layouts" and similar, many many users are looking for things via search engines &c.

I'm happy for the current behaviour to be the default,b ut do think we ought to have it editable based on user preference.

Except it's explicitly not meaningless to other users, the opposite is the case, and there's buckets of usability research on this backing it up (both WPTS and Alertbox have good stuff on it).

I would love to read an article on this so if you have a link (I couldn't find anything on either site) that would be great since I really really fail to see how "Imaginary Footlights" can be more useful than "joseph_dunphy" and would like to see some arguments for it.

Briefly, and I'll find more later (I really ought to write this up properly anyway, it's not just DW based users who frequently get the importance of titles far too far down their priorities)

For other pages than the homepage, start the title with a few of the most salient information-carrying words that describe the specifics of what users will find on that page. Since the page title is used as the window title in the browser, it's also used as the label for that window in the taskbar under Windows, meaning that advanced users will move between multiple windows under the guidance of the first one or two words of each page title. If all your page titles start with the same words, you have severely reduced usability for your multi-windowing users. (under "6. Page Titles With Low Search Engine Visibility" in the top ten mistakes)

I can't find the specific post on WPTS (I really wish one of the bestusability sites was actually usable, bugbears are us). He does have it, sort of, in the "does my site suck" list the sort of is

Our site's TITLE tag is something like "New Document", "Index" and not the name of your company or other search-engine friendly terms.

Now, for you, "imaginary footlights" is useless, and TBH it is for this specific case. LJ derived users and sites, being frequently inward focused, don't tend to worry about this stuff.

But, my journal title is my actual name. People searching for me online aren't going to search for "matgb" if they want info on my when I'm a candidate (and at least 10 people came to my journal when I was last a local election candidate, came 3rd, not too bad for the area), they're going to search for "Mat Bowles".

I didn't have to do any layer hacking to get "Mat Bowles" displayed as the title first in Expressive on LJ, that's the default.

My username is MatGB, ergo people will find it. Jennie's is Miss_S_B, derived froma very old net handle.

To the overwhelming majority of her current readers, miss_s_b is completely meaningless, she's Jennie Rigg, potential candidate for Party Presidency and a Known Person, nationally. No one is going to search for miss_s_b to find her when she's next up for a national level office, but finding her is something we'd want people to do.

A username can at times be chosen randomly, or chosen at short notice, or even at times the third, fourth of fifteenth choice. I was lucky, MatGB was my second choice on LJ, after MatB, and using the middle initial works better anyway. Others?

We sell rename tokens for a reason, right?

To me, your rename is slightly confusing, but at least I know all about it. A journal title can be both more fixed and, importantly, more flexible. If I write about something specific regularly, I can add that, if I set up a comm or a new journal for a specific use, I can set the title to be very user friendly and indicative.

A username is just that. DW_News is "Dreamwidth News" to us. But to a mainstream audience, it's Home | Deutsche Welle. Or even for fandom BBC - Doctor Who - Doctor Who: The Adventure Games - News & Features.

The username is a lot less useful than the journal title. That a large number of users don't, currrently, think about the importance of the page title is a reason to strengthen it's use, the username is nowhere near as meaningful, even currently, let alone in a few years when the most expressive personal names are all gone.

"Imaginary Footlights" is a useless title, to us, but it might mean a lot to readers of that blog, especially if they come in from elsewhere. But if I get around to setting up the Comm for the local film festival I keep meaning to, it'll likely have a comm name like "ffw-bradford" or similar. But the Title will be "Fantastic Films at the Media Museum".

That's meaningful, and useful.

You're thinking entirely of on site users, on site traffic, and your preference for thinking by username. I'm thinking of general users, a new-to-the-site audience, and for off site traffic, including DWers who aren't solid core users looking for useful content. A username tells people very little at times.

But a blog title can, and should if done well, tell a lot.